Working with a click-track?

[eaglebeat]

Of course we all use it when practicing to develop good time but after watching Paul Leim on the MD Fest Dvd (talking about records these days being all about feel and precision) and reading a couple of interviews with Leim and Eddie Bayers I discovered that they may even use a click when playing live.
I will use it when I'm rehearsing a new tune to get the tempo right and sometimes live to easally move from song to song.
I'm interested to know what your thoughts are on working with a click when recording, rehearsing and/or playing live with a band?

Thanks

Eagle

[beats]

I prefer a click while recording,but it ultimately depends on the music/song style.It is a skill any drummer who is working should have down:working with a click.Most recording engineers use some type of digital recording program via a computer.The click is good reference for editing your performance(a practice which has,in my opinion,ruined alot of songs/drummers/sounds..etc...).I fought a small battle learning how 2 record w. a click.Very strange for any drummer who has never been in a studio and used the click.Fortunately that first click experience,had me in a situation where my band had an extravagent amount of time in the studio to record,so we learned as a band how to record to a click.It took me about 3 full days to tame it.Again depending on the style,i still prefer a click,and i generally dont expect(if im recording live off-the-floor with a scratch guitar or bass)other players to have good time,so it acts as a 'phsycological-pillow insurance policy'to safeguard my reputation.Along the way,and meeting other drummers,ive learned a few things to help oneself out using a click.Work on your touch in the studio;u have about 3-4 elements in yer headphone mix(yourself,the click,any type of backing track,and or live scratch tracks.)and the sonics compete with how you percieve the click.Good bands prepare in the pre-production stage,if yer in a band,u all have to get used to the click,work on it until u have shit down cold.Pre-produce yourself;work on soon to be recorded tracks by yourself with a click reference,try different sound references(shaker,cowbell,programmed drum phrases),know the form of the song,or try diff.metronomes/drum machines/drum brains.Learn how to play on/ahead/and behind the click,and know the differences between the 3.Most novice drummers lose time when executing fills,or resolving fills.Practice your fills(if u hafta use fills in the first place)to a click.Chad Sexton of the band 311 told/advised me to use 16th note value for yer click.It takes out alot of spacial/sonic issues when recording,it provides your ears more time reference.All my click recordings employ that note value.If im filling in for someone in another band in a live setting,i borrow my buddies Tama Rhythm watch,rent some in ear headphones,do a bit of simple programming,and talk the band into having me count-off songs.That actually is if i feel the band has bad time in the first place(which they usually do).My current project,in which im playing Drum'n'Bass/Hip-hop/Dub at various ridiculous tempos,i have a click refernce to the sequencing involved in those songs.My timing is solid just because ive worked with a click so much,never used to be that way!As a bonus,if u do use a time reference,u can confidently let other players know any tempo misgivings,heh,if they trust you(beware of guitar players and piano players!).When i practice,i warm up using a click.Then i shed without the click,then go back and shed with the click.To me it is an art to rock the click effectively,as many drummers(if u read MD,u will invariably notice this)often get fired/replaced because they lack that one skill.Matt Chamberlain gets ALOT of gigs because of that,lol!Working with a click can only help you in so many insurmountable ways,because its all about good TIME...............love and respect..............beats...........

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ February 06, 2003 04:31 PM: Message edited by: beats ]</font>

[XNavyDrummer]

Beats is right...you need to establish a good working relationship with the "click", on your own practice time and during rehearsals to set yourself up for nailing the parts at a recording session or on the gig. I like what Simon says about working with a click in one of his videos. He doesn't play it real loud and his philosophy is "if you don't hear it, you're in time. If you do hear it you may be off." Also as Beats alluded to, using other sounds for the time reference (cowbell, shaker, etc.) is generally MUCH more musical than listening to a click!

Years ago, I worked with a Canadian artist who's recorded material was produced by David Foster. On the gig, I played half the show to a click of some sort. The "click" for the first song was a pattern where none of the rhythm was on a down beat. The click played the following pattern

where ................ represents

1e+a 2e+a 3e+a 4e+a

The pattern was:

(...a.e+....a....)


Not only was this really outside, I had to solo over this pattern. Needless to say I had to put in some serious practice time in order to pull this off.

[PocketPlayer]

Each time I've seen Virgil w/Planet X this year he puts on a set of black headphones at particular sections of certain songs. I figure he does this for the following reasons. Maybe someone can school me here;

1. They serve as a hearing device; protection
2. They serve as a monitor system allowing him to hear better during certain sections of a song
3. They serve as a time keeping device of sorts with prerecorded parts

My guess is #2

[jonthibault]

When you guys play live, do you blast the click so you can here it over the music, or do you use a subdivision?

I have a Roland DR-550, and I notice that in loud situations I can barely hear it, even if it's turned all the way up.

[eaglebeat]

I use a in-ear system if I'm playing to a click live and I use 'constructionworker' headphones when I'm practicing.
Thinking of getting Metrophones, anyone know if they're good? Paul Leim speakes of how amazing they are, but they pay him for using them so....?

[palmerlouie]

meterophones...

i got some in the US and they are excellent! i needed a pair of headphones that would isolate enough drums so that the music from my mini disc didnt have to be at unbearable volumes and damaging my ears.

i also wanted a meteronome facility for pratice, but all the ones i had checked out didnt go loud enough in a pair of regular phones.....or those phones werent isolating enough drums! these meterophones solve both problems!

they have very good speakers in them and so everything sounds nice......the idolation is superb and makes all ur drums sound nicer! sounds silly but everthing sounds more bass biased and nicer.....the only possible negative is that using these makes u hit harder. and they can be a little uncomfortable after like and hour of use. but overall comfort wise they are not that bad considering all thats in them! and only like $120.

Ideally the in-ear monortoring that weckl & co. use is the best because u dont know ur wearing them.....but not all of us have Sure as a sponsor!!!

[dr-funkenstein]

here is a bit of my click experience:
i spent several years playing in WDW Magic Kingdom's Kids of the Kingdom Show. outdoors, no shade- 4 horns, bass guitar drums, 8 dancers, 25 fur characters. about 10 charts in 24min.
ONLY the drummer wore headphones that contained the sweetner track (vocals sound FX character voices etc) and the click. the drummer is the only link maintaining sync between the track that audience hears, the band AND the performers on stage. if the drummer varries from the click or misstates a count off, the whole show can come to a grinding halt (and has).
that beintg said you would think the click track for the drummer would be clear as bell and rock solid consistent, right? HAHAHAHA how silly of you.
the click (recorded in like 83) is the arranger pressing a cowbell button on an old drum mach. it is not quantized in any way shape or form. AND, it oftan gets lost in the mix behind vocals, strings, explosions and character voice choruses. UNBELEIVABLE. it was an art to just get through it. it starts to rush B4 the accellerando- it drags B4 retards. sometimes the click is very "on-top" and sometimes very "laid back." however, the one thing you could be sure of was that it was always the same- everytime . . . BAD.

wow it feels good to get that experience off my chest! i did get "click pay" . . . an exttra 4$/hr that the other musicians didnt get. but, it hardly made up for how bad it truley was. . . . ahhhhh the magic of walt disney world.

that group, like most others, is gone. chopped by the budgetary axe and replaced by an all-track show with about 1/2 the performers (all fur characters who get 6$/hr).

[John Rogers]

I find that playing on top of the click doesn't give that drag feeling especially on slower tempos. When playing to a met. I always hear my fills even straight eigth note fills as sounding very dragged
when playing with the tempo on medium or slow tempos. I don't know if it's just me or every drummer.

[Dazzler]

It was good to hear another 'click from hell' story, Dr-Funkenstein as I am glad that there are other drummers who have had similar experiences!
Recently I depped in a two hour ABBA tribute show. The MD was a stickler for detail and wanted everything to be as authentic as possible, even to the point of getting the click to do EXACTLY what the original drummer did as regards to tempo (don't know how). So when he sped up during fills/chorus' and dragged in verses, my click replicated that. What a complete nightmare!
There was no way of getting out of this as the click was linked to a backing track that was going going out front, containing backing vocals and extra guitar parts. So I had to get used to dragging and speeding up with the click for two hours. [img]confused.gif[/img]